The THP Radio Network is proud to present the Golf Unfiltered Show with Adam Fonseca. The show brings new and interesting topics and interviews from the world of golf and we are honored to have it as part of our lineup on The Hackers Paradise Podcast Network.
On today’s episode, Adam discusses whether or not there is a benefit to playing more forgiving golf clubs. He also incorporates a few comments from The Hackers Paradise member forum, as well as three qualities you should look to improve in your game.
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THPGolf · Forgiving Golf Clubs: Golf Unfiltered Episode 275
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I enjoyed this listen. It kind of talks about both sides of the forgiveness spectrum and our minds haha.
Haven’t had a chance to catch this episode yet. Hoping to this afternoon.
it’s a topic I feel very strongly about. Looking forward to it!!
“feel is a really big element in forgiveness that gets overlooked”
I like that ‘forgiveness’ is not simply a representation of accuracy. While I can appreciate the idea that our primary goal is hitting the ball at the target we select, not many folks like to hit one that feels like garbage yet still goes where we want it to.
The quality of strike, at least from a feedback perspective, might be one of the most critical elements of confidence construction.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 9572217, member: 2320″]
The quality of strike, at least from a feedback perspective, might be one of the most critical elements of confidence construction.
[/QUOTE]
I could not agree more with this. Its also performance critical, but in terms of feel, so much has been able to be done the last few years to assist in making larger clubs sound better, feel better and shorten the gap.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9572237, member: 3″]
I could not agree more with this. Its also performance critical, but in terms of feel, so much has been able to be done the last few years to assist in making larger clubs sound better, feel better and shorten the gap.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve said for two years now that we are in a new era of ‘forgiveness’ where the big heads don’t have to sound like something totally different than our beloved bladed pure strikes. Cobra proved that with the F9 irons as did Mizuno with Chromoly (and probably Cally with Epic Forged). The list is constantly growing and I LOVE that.
Going to check in on this one soon as it hits near and dear haha
[QUOTE=”jdtox, post: 9572256, member: 5944″]
Going to check in on this one soon as it hits near and dear haha
[/QUOTE]
You have had quite a journey here.
Great listen and good points.
I about jumped out of my seat when you said moi doesn’t matter.. haha.
or rather that understanding MOI doesn’t matter to start. But I agree.
I enjoyed this episode. Having just gone through the process of being fitted for the second time earlier this year I can wholeheartedly appreciate both sides of the opinion/argument.
I was a bit concerned when I first selected my new irons that they might be a bit of a struggle for me as they looked very blade-like compared to my previous irons. Having played with them for a couple of months now I have adjusted to the new look, and am enjoying the benefits of the new technology, including the “hidden” assistance.
Sure, a proper fitting is all about analyzing data such as ball flight, distance, dispersion, speed, spin, etc. but [S]the most important part[/S] a huge portion of a fitting is the player’s comfort/confidence in the club. Sometimes the outcome of a fitting is not necessarily the longest club, but rather ruling out a model or models that just don’t feel good to a particular player. It’s kind of like test driving a vehicle before you buy it; you might just find something about it that just doesn’t suit you. Given the cost of equipment, I’d sure want to know that I just don’t like the feel of a club before spending my hard earned money…
[QUOTE=”NVGOLFER80, post: 9572489, member: 53139″]
Great listen and good points.
I about jumped out of my seat when you said moi doesn’t matter.. haha.
or rather that understanding MOI doesn’t matter to start. But I agree.
[/QUOTE]
Haha. This is an ongoing discussion [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9572506, member: 3″]
Haha. This is an ongoing discussion [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.
[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. Which I am sure is why he basically said “settle down folks let me explain”.
I will say, I as far as CG goes. I think in some cases with new clubs vertical CG has gotten a little too high to be practical. The ping I500 comes to mind.. The VCG is so high it destroys any forgiveness may have existed..
[QUOTE=”NVGOLFER80, post: 9572511, member: 53139″]
Totally agree. Which I am sure is why he basically said “settle down folks let me explain”.
I will say, I as far as CG goes. I think in some cases with new clubs vertical CG has gotten a little too high to be practical. The ping I500 comes to mind.. The VCG is so high it destroys any forgiveness may have existed..
[/QUOTE]
I agree with that completely. I know it’s by design. It became an arms race for some companies to claim high MOI numbers.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9572506, member: 3″]
Haha. This is an ongoing discussion [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.
[/QUOTE]
I think it highlights again the importance of fittings. I’ve never taken stock and don’t really agree with the labels of super game improvement (forgiveness) and GI irons. Really think it varies so much from individual to individual. What was said attributed to [USER=3]@JB[/USER] I think is spot on – play the clubs that give you the most confidence that good things will happen. These will invariably be the best performing for you
[QUOTE=”Bryndom, post: 9572606, member: 53516″]
I think it highlights again the importance of fittings. I’ve never taken stock and don’t really agree with the labels of super game improvement (forgiveness) and GI irons. Really think it varies so much from individual to individual. What was said attributed to [USER=3]@JB[/USER] I think is spot on – play the clubs that give you the most confidence that good things will happen. These will invariably be the best performing for you
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I am a big believer in playing whatever makes someone happy. Be it right or wrong for top performance.
With that said, in a forum setting like this, where everybody is trying to eek out every last bit of ball speed, spin numbers, etc etc, we then go with something that may not do that very thing.
For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn’t believe how they “fixed” my short game at a time when I couldn’t hit a wedge to save my life.
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573223, member: 34546″]
For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn’t believe how they “fixed” my short game at a time when I couldn’t hit a wedge to save my life.
[/QUOTE]
You could tell, based on the podcast, that you are way more sold on playing forgiving wedges vs forgiving irons hahaha
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573223, member: 34546″]
For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn’t believe how they “fixed” my short game at a time when I couldn’t hit a wedge to save my life.
[/QUOTE]
That is super interesting, because one would think that the further you got away from the green, it would continue to help, right? Or is there a bit of “Im further away I dont expect the result”?
We have a video coming up comparing forgiving wedges to muscle back that was pretty nuts.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 9573228, member: 2320″]
You could tell, based on the podcast, that you are way more sold on playing forgiving wedges vs forgiving irons hahaha
[/QUOTE]
I’ve had a weird tendency of hitting really good shots with blades, but far more consistent shots with cavity backs.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9573233, member: 3″]
That is super interesting, because one would think that the further you got away from the green, it would continue to help, right? Or is there a bit of “Im further away I dont expect the result”?
We have a video coming up comparing forgiving wedges to muscle back that was pretty nuts.
[/QUOTE]
I agree, it’s been a weird dynamic. However, replacing my 4-iron (#RIP) with a hybrid has probably saved me two shots a round.
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573237, member: 34546″]
I agree, it’s been a weird dynamic. However, replacing my 4-iron (#RIP) with a hybrid has probably saved me two shots a round.
[/QUOTE]
I can’t wait for you to have a bag of headcovers.
[media=giphy]4CTlTWDNqcBva[/media]
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573235, member: 34546″]
I’ve had a weird tendency of hitting really good shots with blades, but far more consistent shots with cavity backs.
[/QUOTE]
I have friends locally who have the same perspective. For one of them specifically, it’s 100% mental. He has to play a blade profile or he swings like hot trash. It is as though knowing that forgiveness is there directly encourages his brain to swing like garbage hahaha
There is much I think is misleading in just the term “forgiving”. What is forgiving for one is not always forgiving for another. There are a few aspects that I guess you could call universal. Perimeter weighting and maybe thinner faces to produce speed and maybe longer blade lengths. But not all golfers that are even high handicaps need thick soles, or a ton of offset, etc..
[QUOTE=”NVGOLFER80, post: 9573251, member: 53139″]
There is much I think is misleading in just the term “forgiving”. What is forgiving for one is not always forgiving for another. There are a few aspects that I guess you could call universal. Perimeter weighting and maybe thinner faces to produce speed and maybe longer blade lengths. But not all golfers that are even high handicaps need thick soles, or a ton of offset, etc..
[/QUOTE]
This is pretty true, although I think you can make the case for sole size being pretty universal as handicaps increase. A good example of this is the sand or thick rough, where terrain will in some ways mimic a not so repeatable swing. Almost always, the larger sole will provide aid there.
I played Olympia Fields the week before the BMW, and lemme tell you: I wish I had all hybrids that day.
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573259, member: 34546″]
I played Olympia Fields the week before the BMW, and lemme tell you: I wish I had all hybrids that day.
[/QUOTE]
[media=giphy]244OuEVgkk9Fe[/media]
But in all seriousness, I made the same move as you, putting the 4 hybrid in the bag to replace the 4 iron. When I made a great swing with the 4 iron, it was so beautiful, but when I couldn’t get it off the ground, it was a waste of a stroke. I still have to make a good swing with the Apex hybrid, but it is getting in the air so my more easily, that it is a shot saver.
[QUOTE=”captaincaution, post: 9573272, member: 20606″]
[media=giphy]244OuEVgkk9Fe[/media]
But in all seriousness, I made the same move as you, putting the 4 hybrid in the bag to replace the 4 iron. When I made a great swing with the 4 iron, it was so beautiful, but when I couldn’t get it off the ground, it was a waste of a stroke. I still have to make a good swing with the Apex hybrid, but it is getting in the air so my more easily, that it is a shot saver.
[/QUOTE]
That’s been my experience as well. I have to really mess up the swing to not hit the ball in the air, which saves me at least half a stroke per attempt.
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9573275, member: 34546″]
That’s been my experience as well. I have to really mess up the swing to not hit the ball in the air, which saves me at least half a stroke per attempt.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Even missing the green but being up close is better than worm burning a 190 to 200 yard approach only 120 yards closer.
One thing that [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] said that is absolutely true. Is that everyone can benefit from more forgiveness.
my way of helping him with that statement. Is to mention that Bryson plays relatively forgiving irons.
[QUOTE=”NVGOLFER80, post: 9573526, member: 53139″]
One thing that [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] said that is absolutely true. Is that everyone can benefit from more forgiveness.
my way of helping him with that statement. Is to mention that Bryson plays relatively forgiving irons.
[/QUOTE]
He does love Bryson
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9573528, member: 3″]
He does love Bryson
[/QUOTE]
Haha. I know. I figured he would love that he would help him defend his point. Haha
Good episode even if we have to listen to you talk to yourself for 30 minutes [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] ?
Having played the spectrum of clubs over the last few years I can say without a doubt I agree, everyone could benefit from a little more forgiveness! Yes blades can be fun but isn’t it more fun hitting more greens and not losing 20 yards on a slightly off center hit? I think it is. I had my time with blades, I even had a few really good rounds BUT overall it wasn’t a success. More forgiving clubs are better for me and gives me more enjoyment on the course.
[QUOTE=”jdtox, post: 9573538, member: 5944″]
Good episode even if we have to listen to you talk to yourself for 30 minutes [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] ?
Having played the spectrum of clubs over the last few years I can say without a doubt I agree, everyone could benefit from a little more forgiveness! Yes blades can be fun but isn’t it more fun hitting more greens and not losing 20 yards on a slightly off center hit? I think it is. I had my time with blades, I even had a few really good rounds BUT overall it wasn’t a success. More forgiving clubs are better for me and gives me more enjoyment on the course.
[/QUOTE]
When I was listening to this podcast, I was thinking about your journey and how it evolved.
[QUOTE=”jdtox, post: 9573538, member: 5944″]
Good episode even if we have to listen to you talk to yourself for 30 minutes [USER=34546]@golfunfiltered[/USER] ?
Having played the spectrum of clubs over the last few years I can say without a doubt I agree, everyone could benefit from a little more forgiveness! Yes blades can be fun but isn’t it more fun hitting more greens and not losing 20 yards on a slightly off center hit? I think it is. I had my time with blades, I even had a few really good rounds BUT overall it wasn’t a success. More forgiving clubs are better for me and gives me more enjoyment on the course.
[/QUOTE]
Same here. I wonder how much combo sets have become more popular to bridge that gap? I know i need all the forgiveness i can get from my long irons (5-7) and love the smaller profile with my 8-pw. Forgiving clubs free me up to just swing knowing it will help me rather than focus on trying to make a “perfect” swing that doesn’t happen as consistently as I would like.
[QUOTE=”mikeg_74, post: 9574601, member: 15992″]
Same here. I wonder how much combo sets have become more popular to bridge that gap? I know i need all the forgiveness i can get from my long irons (5-7) and love the smaller profile with my 8-pw. [B]Forgiving clubs free me up to just swing knowing it will help me rather than focus on trying to make a “perfect” swing that doesn’t happen as consistently as I would like.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
The bolded is key I think. When you are playing blades or more demanding clubs I really do think making that perfect swing gets in your head a bit where as forgiving clubs allow you to swing freely.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 9574592, member: 3″]
When I was listening to this podcast, I was thinking about your journey and how it evolved.
[/QUOTE]
The one where I went from being an assassin on the golf course to peoples punching bag? :ROFLMAO: It all started with thinking I could play blades haha
[QUOTE=”jdtox, post: 9574623, member: 5944″]
The one where I went from being an assassin on the golf course to peoples punching bag? :ROFLMAO: It all started with thinking I could play blades haha
[/QUOTE]
To….Morgan Cup Champion 🙂
Don’t get me wrong: I’ll still play one round or two with my blades, just for funsies.
[QUOTE=”golfunfiltered, post: 9574634, member: 34546″]
Don’t get me wrong: I’ll still play one round or two with my blades, just for funsies.
[/QUOTE]
I still have mine too but they are currently shaftless on my workbench. I doubt I’ll ever get rid of them honestly. Maybe someday I’ll throw some shafts back in them for fun, or to punish myself haha
[QUOTE=”jdtox, post: 9574638, member: 5944″]
I still have mine too but they are currently shaftless on my workbench. I doubt I’ll ever get rid of them honestly. Maybe someday I’ll throw some shafts back in them for fun, or to punish myself haha
[/QUOTE]
I find that (convinced myself) hitting blades on the range or during a round is a good training aid. Personally, I feel like my precision variability in terms of center-face-strike worsens as the clubs get more forgiving. I have absolutely no data to back that up.
Wow, that’s what I was looking for, what a data!
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