What came in shocking news today, first reported by CNBC, the LIV Golf vs PGA Tour saga may be coming to an end.
Jump into the THP Conversation on the forum and discuss here.
What came in shocking news today, first reported by CNBC, the LIV Golf vs PGA Tour saga may be coming to an end.
Jump into the THP Conversation on the forum and discuss here.
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[QUOTE=”jezimmerman1, post: 11697196, member: 70643″]
Risk? What risk? They took megabucks to join a no cut guaranteed golf circuit. Lee Westwood just shot 20 over and still pocketed $120,000.
[/QUOTE]
a lot. risk of losing sponsorships which some have if not all. risk of LIV just shutting down all of the sudden and not getting paid the full amount. guys that jumped ship early, what if nobody else signed with LIV. lets say the merger finally goes through, if im a LIV player i wouldnt be happy if they gave xander, cantlay 60 million each or rahm, rory whatever the rumor number was. all those that stayed “loyal” had a chance to join but they didnt.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11697789, member: 3″]
I suppose you have the same feelings about the LPGA and WNBA since these examples have been used?
[/QUOTE]
Nah, those have zero effect on one of my favorite sport, mens pro golf. LIV has a big effect don’t you think? So I wonder if it is viable going forward. As a business proposition, it is not looking good.
[QUOTE=”Tennis19, post: 11698114, member: 52556″]
a lot. risk of losing sponsorships which some have if not all. risk of LIV just shutting down all of the sudden and not getting paid the full amount. guys that jumped ship early, what if nobody else signed with LIV. lets say the merger finally goes through, if im a LIV player i wouldnt be happy if they gave xander, cantlay 60 million each or rahm, rory whatever the rumor number was. all those that stayed “loyal” had a chance to join but they didnt.
[/QUOTE]
Fair points, but they got guaranteed financial rewards way beyond what was likely on the PGAT.
[QUOTE=”Tennis19, post: 11698114, member: 52556″]
a lot. risk of losing sponsorships which some have if not all. risk of LIV just shutting down all of the sudden and not getting paid the full amount. guys that jumped ship early, what if nobody else signed with LIV. lets say the merger finally goes through, if im a LIV player i wouldnt be happy if they gave xander, cantlay 60 million each or rahm, rory whatever the rumor number was. all those that stayed “loyal” had a chance to join but they didnt.
[/QUOTE]
Only for a few who went to LIV. The majority are getting paid more than would ever make on the PGAT, especially those nearing the end of their career.
For most it was a good move and a no-brainer from a financial perspective.
And most would never get any reward for staying loyal, why would they care if the top drawing players do?
John
[QUOTE=”Bosco…, post: 11697239, member: 65357″]
LIV wasn’t created to compete against the PGAT? Then again, the Harlem Globetrotters don’t complete against the NBA.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for proving my point with that lame analogy.
Globetrotters can only wish to have that kind of….
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Why are we even still debating/ arguing over this? They’re both most likely going to be under the same parent company and (presumably) not in competition against one another going forward.
[QUOTE=”frontTsociety, post: 11696918, member: 74694″]
In the same light, I’ll ask what’s in it for you to constantly come to its defence. If you enjoy it great, I’m a little more intrigued every week myself. Why stress yourself out?
[/QUOTE]
I’m not really defending as I unlike others enjoy both leagues.
I’m just pointing out the lunancy of it all. I actually get a kick out of all the mental gymnastics that goes on here. ?
I just find it bizarre that this obsession with trying to discredit another platform of golf is still going on after 2 years.
Does it ever end or will professional golf forever be a place of division and hate towards each other.
Oh and don’t worry about my stress I’m retired living in the golf capital of the world teeing it up 5 days a week. Cheers. ?
Don’t make golf so special. Every other sport has reacted the same way when an upstart league/organization pops up.
John
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11699191, member: 39405″]
Don’t make golf so special. Every other sport has reacted the same way when an upstart league/organization pops up.
John
[/QUOTE]
agreed but the difference here is the total hypocrisy shown by one side.
[QUOTE=”Tennis19, post: 11698114, member: 52556″]
risk of losing sponsorships which some have if not all.
[/QUOTE]
Loss of sponsors was factored into the equation when negotiating their contracts.
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11698488, member: 39405″]
Only for a few who went to LIV. The majority are getting paid more than would ever make on the PGAT, especially those nearing the end of their career.
For most it was a good move and a no-brainer from a financial perspective.
And most would never get any reward for staying loyal, why would they care if the top drawing players do?
John
[/QUOTE]
But if you are out of the top-24 (out of 48) in LIV, you get traded or dumped? So it could be a very short season, expecially if you are out of contract years. At least in PGA Tour, if you are among the top-125, you have a tour card. So percentage wise, you just have to be better than what, ~10-15% of the total field?
Not sure how that works. Matthew Wolff was off the “team” but he did quite well a week or 2 ago.
He is still ranked outside of the top 24, but his earnings for the year exceeds any PGAT year by less than/more than double.
John
[QUOTE=”Birdieputt, post: 11699613, member: 63087″]
agreed but the difference here is the total hypocrisy shown by one side.
[/QUOTE]
The degree of hypocrisy is generally based on which side you are on.
John
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11699191, member: 39405″]
Don’t make golf so special. Every other sport has reacted the same way when an upstart league/organization pops up.
John
[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but other sports didn’t use 9/11 terrorism as a weapon to get the upper hand. That was sick and pathetic and I was in NYC on that horrific day so I do take it a little personally as I knew folks who died that day and years later from lung issues due to their recovery efforts.
It was never proven after years of investigations that the Saudi government was involved in that day. If someone can prove differently I will listen and have a different tone towards that regime.
I have no beef with the PGAT players even the very vocal ones but Jay and the executives are a POS.
[QUOTE=”Birdieputt, post: 11699613, member: 63087″]agreed but the difference here is the total hypocrisy shown by one side.[/QUOTE]
“One side”? As someone who doesn’t care either way there seems to be hypocrisy from both sides.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
[QUOTE=”jezimmerman1, post: 11698438, member: 70643″]
Nah, those have zero effect on one of my favorite sport, mens pro golf. LIV has a big effect don’t you think? So I wonder if it is viable going forward. As a business proposition, it is not looking good.
[/QUOTE]
So hypocrisy. Got it.
The business side of it is meaningless based on the rest of the posts that it was never about money. The merger also makes it meaningless. How anybody can see the Tour as “winning” is beyond me.
If fracturing golf was the loss, and it was by a huge margin, in theory we might see less of that in the future.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11696845, member: 71565″]
This penis measuring contest is so pathetic.
First off LIV is in it’s first full
season compared to WNBA which has been around since 1997 and the PGAT that has been around over 100 years.
Furthermore LIV is broadcasted over 24 different network platforms serving over 15 different countries, you failed to include those numbers. 1/3 of their events are played worldwide and LIV is more a global league.
I have no clue why folks want to continue to make this some sort of competition or keep fanning the division flames.
It was said along time ago that PGAT loyalists talk more about LIV than their own Tour and this still holds true 2 years later.
They should rename this place to……
“The Haters Paradise”
[/QUOTE]
Phil, is that you?
[QUOTE=”DataDude, post: 11700074, member: 47057″]
Phil, is that you?
[/QUOTE]
Brandel, is that you?
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11700072, member: 3″]
So hypocrisy. Got it.
The business side of it is meaningless based on the rest of the posts that it was never about money. The merger also makes it meaningless. How anybody can see the Tour as “winning” is beyond me.
If fracturing golf was the loss, and it was by a huge margin, in theory we might see less of that in the future.
[/QUOTE]
Hypocrisy from my posts? How so?
Yes, fracturing was the worst thing for the golf fan. So, I hope LIV dies and they all come back to one main tour.
[QUOTE=”jezimmerman1, post: 11701183, member: 70643″]
Hypocrisy from my posts? How so?
Yes, fracturing was the worst thing for the golf fan. So, I hope LIV dies and they all come back to one main tour.
[/QUOTE]
While many Americans may endorse “one main tour”, not so sure the rest of the countries on planet earth do.
I think it sucks to look down on the Euro/DP tour as nothing more than a feeder tour. Imagine what folks over there think. Isn’t hard to imagine that many of them view the tour in the same light as many Americans view LIV, in that they are luring players in with money.
I would guess American football is viewed as inferior to international football (soccer) but I doubt anyone in the US even remotely cares.
American professional soccer leagues are probably viewed as inferior to other professional football leagues around the world, and I’ll bet few Americans care. Many don’t know those leagues exist.
John
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11702683, member: 39405″]
I would guess American football is viewed as inferior to international football (soccer) but I doubt anyone in the US even remotely cares.
American professional soccer leagues are probably viewed as inferior to other professional football leagues around the world, and I’ll bet few Americans care. Many don’t know those leagues exist.
John
[/QUOTE]
US soccer catching strays in the LIV thread ?
[QUOTE=”RealPretendPsychic, post: 11702687, member: 57192″]
US soccer catching strays in the LIV thread ?
[/QUOTE]
It was more of a response that the DP World Tour being considered a feeder tour to the PGAT.
in many ways it is. The top European players play on the PGAT. The top (10?) DPWT are granted PGAT status. It is just the way it is.
My soccer example was to show that in different parts of the world certain sorts excel over other parts.
John
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11699653, member: 39405″]
The degree of hypocrisy is generally based on which side you are on.
John
[/QUOTE]
Really? In looking at who said what and the history of what was going on, the hypocrisy level of the two sides is not comparable. surely you can figure out who the winner of that discussion actually is.
[QUOTE=”Birdieputt, post: 11704321, member: 63087″]
Really? In looking at who said what and the history of what was going on, the hypocrisy level of the two sides is not comparable. surely you can figure out who the winner of that discussion actually is.
[/QUOTE]
Not really. In growing the game, the technique is tried and true method not far removed from America’s gilded age.
While the titans of industry were very competent, their method of growing the “industry” was to force any competition out of business.
The PGAT merged with LIV because it was only a matter of time until it got bulldozed over.
John
[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11704414, member: 39405″]
Not really. In growing the game, the technique is tried and true method not far removed from America’s gilded age.
While the titans of industry were very competent, their method of growing the “industry” was to force any competition out of business.
The PGAT merged with LIV because it was only a matter of time until it got bulldozed over.
John
[/QUOTE]
Really, was that before or after they called them the evil empire, blamed them for sports washing and bad faith, (despite having done business with them since 18 per Monahan)? They had a problem when they weren’t getting paid and had no problem when they were. I don’t know how else you could term this but total hypocrisy.
[QUOTE=”Birdieputt, post: 11704957, member: 63087″]
Really, was that before or after they called them the evil empire, blamed them for sports washing and bad faith, (despite having done business with them since 18 per Monahan)? They had a problem when they weren’t getting paid and had no problem when they were. I don’t know how else you could term this but total hypocrisy.
[/QUOTE]
Actually I stopped believing the self serving statements of highly compensated individuals years ago, regardless of which direction they are coming. The goal of all of them is to maximize their own return.
In some ways it is only hypocrisy if you are naive enough to believe it. In that case you are right.
John
To clarify. I think Monahan “spun” whatever he felt he needed at the time. Not unlike many other executives that make statements and then flip 180 degrees when it doesn’t work.
I‘ll always believe the PGAT was facing dire consequences at some point in time if they continued fighting LIV/PIF. Not just financial but also losing top players.
I also think PIF was smart enough to not push the PGAT to the point of no longer being viable.
John
You know the difference between a career politician and the head of an organization like the PGAT or Google? Me neither.
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[QUOTE=”70sSanO, post: 11705243, member: 39405″]
To clarify. I think Monahan “spun” whatever he felt he needed at the time. Not unlike many other executives that make statements and then flip 180 degrees when it doesn’t work.
I‘ll always believe the PGAT was facing dire consequences at some point in time if they continued fighting LIV/PIF. Not just financial but also losing top players.
I also think PIF was smart enough to not push the PGAT to the point of no longer being viable.
John
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know what the anti-Monahan group is looking for, they complain but they offer no solution. To me it’s as simple as 1, 2, 3…. LIV (PIF) has oodles of money; PGA doesn’t have anywhere close to that. They were able to put some $$$ up front real quick to slow the hemorrhaging (making Phil think he was ‘right’; shut up Phil, no you weren’t right, that kind of expenditure was not sustainable; there’s no way to fight against $700 billion dollar trust fund when at best you have $800-mill? (not 2x less, not 10-times less, but [B]1,000-times less!![/B]). It was either negotiate something or go Bankrupt at some point; and by negotiation, you get a say in the format. I’m pretty sure LIV was wanting PGATour’s media/network showings. Well, the players that left, you don’t even hear/see them anymore on a weekly basis unless you try to follow them on that WG network? (or whatever it is). I’m sure that is a thorn in their side. Not good for sponsors when you’re not on widely viewed network TV. They’ll figure out something. So this deal that Tiger/JT have come up with, is that part of the PGA Tour ‘assets’ or is that a private venture through the players?….has to have PGAT’s blessing as they’re using their name in the promotion of it….does LIV get a piece of that (I hope not).
lol. LIV doesn’t meet the criteria but Tour Championship does, funny how that works.
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[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11707125, member: 71565″]
lol. LIV doesn’t meet the criteria but Tour Championship does, funny how that works.
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[/QUOTE]
Your forgetting the stipulation that your events have to [U]average[/U] a field of 75 or higher. Add in all the regular 150-person field events and it averages up any of these fewer small-field events.
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11707135, member: 749″]
Your forgetting the stipulation that your events have to [U]average[/U] a field of 75 or higher. Add in all the regular 150-person field events and it averages up any of these fewer small-field events.
[/QUOTE]
* You’re
Hey listen, OWGR has been sitting on the LIV application for well over a year now, any word on when we might hear something? Are they busy? It would be nice to have an honest and fair ranking system or does that only come if they agree to the PGAT deal? lol.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11707177, member: 71565″]
* You’re
Hey listen, OWGR has been sitting on the LIV application for well over a year now, any word on when we might hear something? Are they busy? It would be nice to have an honest and fair ranking system or does that only come if they agree to the PGAT deal? lol.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know, but I would have to ask, what did LIV do to comply with any of the stipulations for membership in OWGR for world ranking points? Did they address the requirements for a cut? Did they address the 72 hole w/cut vs 54 hole w/no cut? Did they address the average field size of 75 (they have only 48 total/average)? If the answer is NO to all of them, whoah, then why would you expect any action? I presume they didn’t even move on any one of these issues or try to meet them halfway. Do you think that would/should get LIV anywhere? I’d say the Kornferry Tour, which meets all of the OWGR requirements, should get more points than LIV, don’t you think that’s fair?
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11707548, member: 749″]
I don’t know, but I would have to ask, what did LIV do to comply with any of the stipulations for membership in OWGR for world ranking points? Did they address the requirements for a cut? Did they address the 72 hole w/cut vs 54 hole w/no cut? Did they address the average field size of 75 (they have only 48 total/average)? If the answer is NO to all of them, whoah, then why would you expect any action? I presume they didn’t even move on any one of these issues or try to meet them halfway. Do you think that would/should get LIV anywhere? I’d say the Kornferry Tour, which meets all of the OWGR requirements, should get more points than LIV, don’t you think that’s fair?
[/QUOTE]
So some of the best players get zero points because they don’t play on the right playground, and by that playgrounds rules, got it. Makes sense to some, I guess????
Remind us, who gave the OWGR the authority to rank players from around the world, and why would they choose to not pay attention to some of them? Surely those same folks don’t have a vested interest, right?
What difference does it make if there is a cut, if they play 18/36/54 or 72 holes, or what the average field size is? Good golf is good golf and it can be be recognized at your local muni.
I do not need the DP, PGA tour or owgr folks to tell me who is best, I can see it for myself. The you are only good if you play this way in these events is complete garbage.
[QUOTE=”Nice 2, post: 11707657, member: 72638″]
So some of the best players get zero points because they don’t play on the right playground, and by that playgrounds rules, got it. Makes sense to some, I guess????
Remind us, who gave the OWGR the authority to rank players from around the world, and why would they choose to not pay attention to some of them? Surely those same folks don’t have a vested interest, right?
What difference does it make if there is a cut, if they play 18/36/54 or 72 holes, or what the average field size is? Good golf is good golf and it can be be recognized at your local muni.
I do not need the DP, PGA tour or owgr folks to tell me who is best, I can see it for myself. The you are only good if you play this way in these events is complete garbage.
[/QUOTE]
Again, you skip over the fact that when they made that LIV format, they [U]knew[/U] what the OWGR requirements were, they purposely ignored them, and now they (and you) want to reward that? I guess many factions in this country don’t seem to think rules apply to them.
“[I]So some of the best players get zero points because they don’t play on the right playground, and by that playgrounds rules, got it. Makes sense to some, I gues[/I]s????”
Yes sir, makes very good sense to me. So, flip it around, they must feel privileged that they don’t even bother accomodating the ‘rules’ even partly or halfway; they had the opportunity to do that when they made their system? Why aren’t those players revolting against Greg Norman to do something to change their rules to get their OWGR points (maybe some are and we don’t know that… I would expect Norman to be against that considering his personna)? Likely a feeling of privilege to expect they’d get their way?
I do think they should get ‘some points’, but not something that you’d like, given the reasons I just stated…. maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of what the KornFerry guys get? That’s enough for an entity that doesn’t match any of the rules requirements.
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11707922, member: 749″]
Again, you skip over the fact that when they made that LIV format, they [U]knew[/U] what the OWGR requirements were, they purposely ignored them, and now they (and you) want to reward that. I guess many factions in this country don’t seem to think rules apply to them.
“So some of the best players get zero points because they don’t play on the right playground, and by that playgrounds rules, got it. Makes sense to some, I guess????”
Yes sir, makes very good sense to me. So, flip it around, they must feel privileged that they don’t even bother accomodating the ‘rules’ even partly or halfway? Why aren’t those players revolting against Greg Norman to do something to change their rules to get their OWGR points? Likely a feeling of privilege to expect they’d get their way?
I do think they should get ‘some points’, but not something that you’d like, given the reasons I just stated…. maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of what the KornFerry guys get? That’s enough for an entity that doesn’t match any of the rules requirements.
[/QUOTE]
Well true except alterations have been done to OWGR during.
Its not about privileged or un, its about the idea that a ranking system that is not supposed to be designed for a specific tour, but rather a goal to rank every tour together. Yet in it’s current format, is really just a PGA Tour and Euro Tour ranking for the majors.
That’s fine too, but stop calling it the OWGR, just abolish it and let the tour pick who they want in.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11707925, member: 3″]
Well true except alterations have been done to OWGR during.
Its not about privileged or un, its about the idea that a ranking system that is not supposed to be designed for a specific tour, but rather a goal to rank every tour together. Yet in it’s current format, is really just a PGA Tour and Euro Tour ranking for the majors.
That’s fine too, but stop calling it the OWGR, just abolish it and let the tour pick who they want in.
[/QUOTE]
I guess OWGR should come up with an algorithm to determine what points should be awarded in different tours. I wouldn’t mind, but would like to see them take into account difficulty of a ‘win’ in a system of 48 players with no cut vs one that is mostly 150 players, that cut to 70 and then have to win out over 70 guys. If they can come up with ‘points gained’ system for determining golf skill effectiveness tee to green, then I’m sure they can come up with something to determine equivalency in winning/finishing high in one system vs the other to determine points to be awarded (maybe that would even force PGAT to re-consider their no-cut offerings they are proposing, that points would be diminished in those). I thought I saw somewhere that this was being proposed (i.e., points awarded based on a ‘points gained’ leveling of the field at a particular venue? something like that) in a modified OWGR methods of calculating, but I can’t say I’m up on that news.
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11707942, member: 749″]
I guess OWGR should come up with an algorithm to determine what points should be awarded in different tours. I wouldn’t mind, but would like to see them take into account difficulty of a ‘win’ in a system of 48 players with no cut vs one that is mostly 150 players, that cut to 70 and then have to win out over 70 guys. If they can come up with ‘points gained’ system for determining golf skill effectiveness tee to green, then I’m sure they can come up with something to determine equivalency in winning/finishing high in one system vs the other to determine points to be awarded (maybe that would even force PGAT to re-consider their no-cut offerings they are proposing, that points would be diminished in those). I thought I saw somewhere that this was being proposed (or already adopted?) in a modified OWGR methods of calculating, but I can’t say I’m up on that news.
[/QUOTE]
They already do that now.
The PGA Tour and others have no cut and smaller field events.
[QUOTE=”Birdieputt, post: 11704957, member: 63087″]
Really, was that before or after they called them the evil empire, blamed them for sports washing and bad faith, (despite having done business with them since 18 per Monahan)? They had a problem when they weren’t getting paid and had no problem when they were. I don’t know how else you could term this but total hypocrisy.
[/QUOTE]
What about all the better schedule for families, better caddie temperament, better airplane flights etc talk which no one really cared about when LIV stopped doing all the fancy stuff for their 2023 season? What about Phil talking about how much money the Tour was keeping from players? It’s all bullshit on both sides. Just narratives they tell to justify what they want to do or justify what they want to happen to serve their best interests.
Human beings never care about facts, what humans really care about is whatever stories they are telling themselves about the world to get through another day of existence. We only ever bring facts into it when someone is trying to tell a story that’s different than our own and we pick those facts very selectively. Hardly anyone wants to really look at the actuality of the big entire picture.
In golf the big entire picture is that there is just not enough eyeballs globally on the sport to support the promises that both LIV and the PGA Tour have made to their players over the last 2 years. The reason there is a merger here is the same reason any merger occurs, to gain efficiency. These 2 groups are going to combine to decrease the amount of money they owe the players over the next 2-3 years because there is not enough revenue to pay it all out.
The net result is that there will be more prize money for golfers in 2024 than there was in 2020, but less than there was in 2023 and possibly substantially less than there was in 2023. I am waiting for this to shake out and then I will add the total prize money available from whatever is left after this merger in 2024 to what was paid out in 2023 before this merger. I think that’s going to pretty clearly explain why this merger is occurring.
[QUOTE=”Nice 2, post: 11707657, member: 72638″]
Remind us, who gave the OWGR the authority to rank players from around the world, and why would they choose to not pay attention to some of them? Surely those same folks don’t have a vested interest, right?
[/QUOTE]
The authority was given by the people that use the OWGR rankings, the member tours and majors.
Maybe they just change the name to “The (Mostly) 72 Hole Event Tour and Major Eligibility Rankings” instead?
There are other rankings, like DataGolf, Sagarin, etc if you want an alternative ranking of the golfers to look at. :LOL:
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11707947, member: 3″]
They already do that now.
The PGA Tour and others have no cut and smaller field events.
[/QUOTE]
But their ‘average field size’ over the course of the tour year is over 75 as required by the OWGR.
Well, whatever happens happens, so we’ll see. Nothing I say will change anything that will happen anyway. Regards, have a great day; this isn’t worth getting upset over.
Talk about a big story that has gone nowhere.
[QUOTE=”DataDude, post: 11750793, member: 47057″]
Talk about a big story that has gone nowhere.
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I’m not following that closely. But I did see that there was another hearing in the Senate this week apparently focusing on the PIF.
Didn’t LIV buy or invest in one of the Asian based tours and start putting on events to get the average player count high enough for OWGR rules and the OWGR said that didn’t count?
Let’s not act like the OWGR isn’t run by the main tours and doesn’t want to give points to LIV as punishment for upsetting the status quo.
[QUOTE=”Greg Kulbick, post: 11751014, member: 15014″]
Didn’t LIV buy or invest in one of the Asian based tours and start putting on events to get the average player count high enough for OWGR rules and the OWGR said that didn’t count?
Let’s not act like the OWGR isn’t run by the main tours and doesn’t want to give points to LIV as punishment for upsetting the status quo.
[/QUOTE]
You didn’t address how far LIV came (or didn’t come) to accomodating OWGR requirements? Seems what was done was like IRS calling on me for not paying $10,000 in taxes and me saying, but I paid $300 towards them? How many LIV players played in the Asian tour events? How many Asian Tour players were allowed into LIV events? That was more of a disingenuous offer to get OWGR points; I can see how it was not highly regarded as a sincere effort.
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11751041, member: 749″]
You didn’t address how far LIV came (or didn’t come) to accomodating OWGR requirements? Seems what was done was like IRS calling on me for not paying $10,000 in taxes and me saying, but I paid $300 towards them? How many LIV players played in the Asian tour events? How many Asian Tour players were allowed into LIV events? That was more of a disingenuous offer to get OWGR points; I can see how it was not highly regarded as a sincere effort.
[/QUOTE]
Sincere effort?
Its a formula.
A formula that has changed many times since it’s existence.
I just don’t see any deal being made without LIV getting OWGR in it’s present format.
As [USER=47057]@DataDude[/USER] said earlier in this thread, the total annual money being paid out by LIV and the PGA Tour
[QUOTE=”DataDude, post: 11707972, member: 47057″]
What about all the better schedule for families, better caddie temperament, better airplane flights etc talk which no one really cared about when LIV stopped doing all the fancy stuff for their 2023 season? What about Phil talking about how much money the Tour was keeping from players? It’s all ******** on both sides. Just narratives they tell to justify what they want to do or justify what they want to happen to serve their best interests.
Human beings never care about facts, what humans really care about is whatever stories they are telling themselves about the world to get through another day of existence. We only ever bring facts into it when someone is trying to tell a story that’s different than our own and we pick those facts very selectively. Hardly anyone wants to really look at the actuality of the big entire picture.
In golf the big entire picture is that there is just not enough eyeballs globally on the sport to support the promises that both LIV and the PGA Tour have made to their players over the last 2 years. The reason there is a merger here is the same reason any merger occurs, to gain efficiency. These 2 groups are going to combine to decrease the amount of money they owe the players over the next 2-3 years because there is not enough revenue to pay it all out.
The net result is that there will be more prize money for golfers in 2024 than there was in 2020, but less than there was in 2023 and possibly substantially less than there was in 2023. I am waiting for this to shake out and then I will add the total prize money available from whatever is left after this merger in 2024 to what was paid out in 2023 before this merger. I think that’s going to pretty clearly explain why this merger is occurring.
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Agree on the money going to the players decreasing over the next 2-3 years. The Saudi’s can obviously afford to lose money on supporting LIV, but I don’t think they’ll do it for very long. There aren’t enough golf spectators worldwide to keep 7 golfers on the top 25 paid athletes list each year.
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