What came in shocking news today, first reported by CNBC, the LIV Golf vs PGA Tour saga may be coming to an end.
Jump into the THP Conversation on the forum and discuss here.
What came in shocking news today, first reported by CNBC, the LIV Golf vs PGA Tour saga may be coming to an end.
Jump into the THP Conversation on the forum and discuss here.
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[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11751041, member: 749″]
You didn’t address how far LIV came (or didn’t come) to accomodating OWGR requirements? Seems what was done was like IRS calling on me for not paying $10,000 in taxes and me saying, but I paid $300 towards them? How many LIV players played in the Asian tour events? How many Asian Tour players were allowed into LIV events? That was more of a disingenuous offer to get OWGR points; I can see how it was not highly regarded as a sincere effort.
[/QUOTE]
Is sincerity listed as one of the requirements?
Just say you don’t like LIV and don’t want them to get points no matter what they do, and that you agree OWGR should keep moving the goalposts and only rank the golfers on tours you like.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11751048, member: 3″]
Sincere effort?
Its a formula.
[/QUOTE]
Right….and how close did they come to the formula requirements?
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11751359, member: 749″]
Right….and how close did they come to the formula requirements?
[/QUOTE]
Well they changed in the last year so there is that.
But its been discussed 5501298 times in this thread. Its very clear they didnt want LIV to get points, so PIF said hold by beer.
Hate it, but Monahan got absolutely smoked.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 11751378, member: 3″]
[B]Well they changed in the last year so there is that.[/B]
But its been discussed 5501298 times in this thread. Its very clear they didnt want LIV to get points, so PIF said hold by beer.
Hate it, but Monahan got absolutely smoked.
[/QUOTE]
‘Changed’ what? Still no cut, still 48 players, still 3 rounds, barely a way to play yourself on as an outsider…I think they have some provision to allow a few people to get in?(not sure of that).
If LIV Golf gets OWGR points, I’m pushing for OWGR points for the Champions Tour.
54 holes, not cut and no other tour has as many HOF golfers. Not even close.
John
[QUOTE=”bulls9999, post: 11753485, member: 749″]
‘Changed’ what? Still no cut, still 48 players, still 3 rounds, barely a way to play yourself on as an outsider…I think they have some provision to allow a few people to get in?(not sure of that).
[/QUOTE]
?
OWGR not LIV…
I wonder why the merger is taking so long? They said they would have all the details ironed out months ago. Seems like there should have been at least a public statement on some of the details and how they are moving forward.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 11751567, member: 68350″]
Well to be fair 2M of Phil’s earnings came from the off the course revenue.
I heard he had a sponsorship with a local chain that paid pretty well, 5 guys shawarm
[/QUOTE]
I understand he was an original investor in 5 guys.
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11805640, member: 66484″]
I wonder why the merger is taking so long? They said they would have all the details ironed out months ago. Seems like there should have been at least a public statement on some of the details and how they are moving forward.
[/QUOTE]
I never thought this would get done by the end of the year and see an extension on the horizon. It seems halting the court cases was the immediate concern.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11808986, member: 71565″]
I never thought this would get done by the end of the year and see an extension on the horizon. It seems halting the court cases was the immediate concern.
[/QUOTE]
Agree, and also saw where the tour was negotiating with some other investment firm. Can’t imagine that goes over well with PIF folks.
The article didn’t say much, and seemed like a half a$$ effort at some leverage.
[QUOTE=”Nice 2, post: 11809273, member: 72638″]
Agree, and also saw where the tour was negotiating with some other investment firm. Can’t imagine that goes over well with PIF folks.
The article didn’t say much, and seemed like a half a$$ effort at some leverage.
[/QUOTE]
What article was half assed? Do you have a link to it? I’d like to read it.
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11809303, member: 66484″]
What article was half assed? Do you have a link to it? I’d like to read it.
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don’t recall exactly where I saw it. I did not intend to imply the entire article itself was half assed, only the short paragraph that stated the tour was negotiating with someone on an investment deal “that was much like the PIF”.
I think it might have been same sports investment group that Magic Johnson is part of. I admittedly skimmed it and didn’t give it much thought. Too much junk in the media these days to take it too seriously.
Apparently, there are lots of attractive women that are 9+ working LIV events. Why is it controversial and an issue? Lol.
[MEDIA=twitter]1710318192726282699[/MEDIA]
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11809728, member: 66484″]
Apparently, there are lots of attractive women that are 9+ working LIV events. Why is it controversial and an issue? Lol.
[MEDIA=twitter]1710318192726282699[/MEDIA]
[/QUOTE]
Well the wife and I are headed to south Florida in a couple weeks and have tics.
But who am I to judge others;)
[QUOTE=”Nice 2, post: 11809765, member: 72638″]
Well the wife and I are headed to south Florida in a couple weeks and have tics.
But who am I to judge others;)
[/QUOTE]
The PGA should be implementing that kind of controversy into tournaments like LIV is. ?
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 11812538, member: 68350″]
I guess it all comes down to the language. I don’t believe the PIF is investing billions into the PGA, they are investing it into the parent company that will be “for profit” i believe. So there may not be any guarantee that any of that money makes it to the players (certainly you’d think some of it would)
But for the sake of argument, couldn’t the parent company use that money to buy more real estate, or other kinds of partnerships looking for better return. They don’t have to put it in purses. And this makes golf a monopoly again. There’s a world where this is all worse for the players
Now, i’m not suggesting that is what will happen –Just that i could see the players pushing for guarantees before agreeing. Especially if Patrick Cantlay is involved given everything we read about him now. (which i think is a good thing for the players)
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it is all speculation at this point. Perhaps, I am looking at it too simply. It is a very complicated business deal for the players when there will be three business entities, PGA, LIV, and the new for-profit company. They don’t have to put the billion dollars into purses, but I doubt that will go over with players. I could see some guarantees with players as well. It is really interesting to me, better than many movies. Lol. Pro golf has never seen a shakeup like this.
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11812133, member: 66484″]
I still don’t understand why the PGA players would object to the deal (many seem to be objecting) when the PIF is looking to invest 1 billion into the PGA. It would just make pro golf much bigger and put much more money into it. Likely that is more money for players and more opportunities/jobs in both the US and globally.
[/QUOTE]
It could also be the control they would be giving up for the money.
Jay would still need to answer to Yasir.
The more I think about this maybe a foreign government PIF being this involved in American golf may not be the best idea.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11815539, member: 71565″]
It could also be the control they would be giving up for the money.
Jay would still need to answer to Yasir.
The more I think about this maybe a foreign government PIF being this involved in American golf may not be the best idea.
[/QUOTE]
It is not just American golf, it is European golf too. The DP World Tour, PGA, and LIV are all the business entities that are under this deal. Yeah, but how it will effect the players on the PGA, LIV, and the DP World tour is still a lot of speculation at this point. Here is a short explanation of the deal from CNBC and it sounds like PGA tour still holds controlling power and PIF is more of a silent investor, but really who knows.
“In a five-page agreement obtained by CNBC, the parties — the PGA Tour, the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund and Europe’s DP World Tour — agreed to create a for-profit subsidiary of the PGA Tour. The new entity will manage commercial assets for all the tours, while the PGA Tour will manage competitions.
The tour will hold a permanent controlling interest in the new entity’s board of directors and would maintain that majority share regardless of PIF’s investments, according to the document. PIF, which agreed it will be a noncontrolling minority investor, has said it would invest billions into the entity.”
Interested to see where this goes. We still have no official LIV schedule for 2024 and not one detail of this merger at all. This is the biggest non-story I have ever seen at this point.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11815539, member: 71565″]
It could also be the control they would be giving up for the money.
Jay would still need to answer to Yasir.
The more I think about this maybe a foreign government PIF being this involved in American golf may not be the best idea.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG alt=”George Clooney Reaction GIF”]https://media4.giphy.com/media/l9FG64wy5CT5e/200.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11816272, member: 66484″]
It is not just American golf, it is European golf too. The DP World Tour, PGA, and LIV are all the business entities that are under this deal. Yeah, but how it will effect the players on the PGA, LIV, and the DP World tour is still a lot of speculation at this point. Here is a short explanation of the deal from CNBC and it sounds like PGA tour still holds controlling power and PIF is more of a silent investor, but really who knows.
“In a five-page agreement obtained by CNBC, the parties — the PGA Tour, the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund and Europe’s DP World Tour — agreed to create a for-profit subsidiary of the PGA Tour. The new entity will manage commercial assets for all the tours, while the PGA Tour will manage competitions.
The tour will hold a permanent controlling interest in the new entity’s board of directors and would maintain that majority share regardless of PIF’s investments, according to the document. PIF, which agreed it will be a noncontrolling minority investor, has said it would invest billions into the entity.”
[/QUOTE]
This is the most clusterf@#k deal I’ve ever seen in my life.
PGAT is doing cartwheels trying to hold on to the not-for-profit status but have a for-profit subsidiary at the same time. Which of course will hold the board majority over both entities.
This is my favorite part
[QUOTE]
PIF, which agreed it will be a noncontrolling minority investor, has said it would invest billions into the entity.”
[/QUOTE]
Here are billions of dollars and we will gladly have no say in what you do with the money. ?
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11820073, member: 71565″]
This is the most clusterf@#k deal I’ve ever seen in my life.
PGAT is doing cartwheels trying to hold on to the not-for-profit status but have a for-profit subsidiary at the same time. Which of course will hold the board majority over both entities.
This is my favorite part
Here are billions of dollars and we will gladly have no say in what you do with the money. ?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, who really knows what the fine print will be. Of course the PIF is an investment firm and they see potential for making money with the deal. I’m guessing if they see they are making money, they won’t have much involvement. The PIF has invested a lot of money into sports already, like F1, soccer (Newcastle) and boxing and I haven’t heard much controversy with those deals. Perhaps, I just don’t know enough about what is going on, though. The deal is interesting, and at this point, I just want to see stuff happen since I’m a spectator. ?
[QUOTE=”MrDC, post: 11821286, member: 38031″]
It’s pretty amazing how this LIV thing completely destroyed pro golf, it was always possible this would happen from the beginning but I thought there was a path to survival, not the case.
The real reason we’ve heard so little about this is because they have no idea how to make it work, and get fans back on board with the Saudi money, and the more issues we see in the world just makes it worse.
I think it’s going to take a long time to reset golf before fans come back, they’ll probably try to get this plan to work for a bit because of all the money involved, the players want that cash, but it’s going to get ugly for a while for these guys on the course.
The best thing they can do is say no deal, walk away, and let the chips fall, that may not help at this point but maybe some fans return.
[/QUOTE]
Funny how Aramco Series didn’t destroy women’s golf but LIV destroyed men’s golf. I wonder what was different?
For those that don’t know Saudi’s went to DPWT just like they went to LET.
So it was the same pitch with different responses.
Lexi who plays in the Aramco series is playing in a PGAT tournament this weekend. Are the Saudi’s going to ban her from Aramco series, of course not.
Jay and Jay alone is to blame for this debacle.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11821375, member: 71565″]
Funny how Aramco Series didn’t destroy women’s golf but LIV destroyed men’s golf. I wonder what was different?
For those that don’t know Saudi’s went to DPWT just like they went to LET.
So it was the same pitch with different responses.
Lexi who plays in the Aramco series is playing in a PGAT tournament this weekend. Are the Saudi’s going to ban her from Aramco series, of course not.
Jay and Jay alone is to blame for this debacle.
[/QUOTE]
Mens golf doesn’t feel destroyed to me.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 11822176, member: 2320″]
Mens golf doesn’t feel destroyed to me.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t replying to you, I was replying to[B] “It’s pretty amazing how this LIV thing completely destroyed pro golf”[/B]
But I’m glad you’re okay with the state of today’s pro golf.(y)
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11822255, member: 71565″]
I wasn’t replying to you, I was replying to[B] “It’s pretty amazing how this LIV thing completely destroyed pro golf”[/B]
But I’m glad you’re okay with the state of today’s pro golf.(y)
[/QUOTE]
I’d be better if they all penalized slow play :LOL:
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11821375, member: 71565″]
Funny how Aramco Series didn’t destroy women’s golf but LIV destroyed men’s golf. I wonder what was different?
For those that don’t know Saudi’s went to DPWT just like they went to LET.
So it was the same pitch with different responses.
Lexi who plays in the Aramco series is playing in a PGAT tournament this weekend. Are the Saudi’s going to ban her from Aramco series, of course not.
Jay and Jay alone is to blame for this debacle.
[/QUOTE]
The LPGA and LET allowed players to play Aramco Series events and not kick them off LPGA and LET tours. If the PGA allowed that, I’m sure top players would not have defected and would have been fine with only being allowed to play 3 LIV events a year. The PGA only allows 3 tournaments a year outside the PGA.
[QUOTE=”CrashTestDummy, post: 11823110, member: 66484″]
The LPGA and LET allowed players to play Aramco Series events and not kick them off LPGA and LET tours. If the PGA allowed that, I’m sure top players would not have defected and would have been fine with only being allowed to play 3 LIV events a year. The PGA only allows 3 tournaments a year outside the PGA.
[/QUOTE]
Allowed? The LPGA and LET weren’t stupid and encouraged their players to go get that money and grow ladies’ golf.
I just hope after this last slap in the face to the Saudis they don’t pull the plug on Aramco.
Does the fact that LIV had what is basically their marque event and basically no one even cares or talked about it at all say anything??
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 11837789, member: 53139″]
Does the fact that LIV had what is basically their marque event and basically no one even cares or talked about it at all say anything??
[/QUOTE]
They have zero juice but it is the same for the PGA Tour right now. How many events are people excited about on either tour?
The Player’s and WM Open seem to be the only ones that aren’t the major.
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837876, member: 51852″]
They have zero juice but it is the same for the PGA Tour right now. How many events are people excited about on either tour?
The Player’s and WM Open seem to be the only ones that aren’t the major.
[/QUOTE]
Wells Fargo had a huge turnout, usually the PGA Championship gets pretty solid viewers and spectators.
The thing is this was their “major” or “palyers” and it was dead. Weird honestly since it had a lot of hype for a minute.
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837876, member: 51852″]
They have zero juice but it is the same for the PGA Tour right now. How many events are people excited about on either tour?
The Player’s and WM Open seem to be the only ones that aren’t the major.
[/QUOTE]
But the PGA and a million events. LIv has what? 12? And this is their biggest..
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 11837890, member: 53139″]
But the PGA and a million events. LIv has what? 12? And this is their biggest..
[/QUOTE]
Adelaide was a success and I think that is going to be their best going forward.
I have thought the tour needs to shrink the amount events. Get people excited by not having it every week. 2-3(including majors) events a month from January to September and make all the big name players play against each other every event.
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837915, member: 51852″]
Adelaide was a success and I think that is going to be their best going forward.
[B][I]I have thought the tour needs to shrink the amount event[/I][/B]s. Get people excited by not having it every week. 2-3(including majors) events a month from January to September and make all the big name players play against each other every event.
[/QUOTE]
1000% agree here!!
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837915, member: 51852″]
Adelaide was a success and I think that is going to be their best going forward.
I have thought the tour needs to shrink the amount events. Get people excited by not having it every week. 2-3(including majors) events a month from January to September and make all the big name players play against each other every event.
[/QUOTE]
With less events they could increase the purses, too. Just have the all the stars competing less often, but for huge money…
You got to wonder if Mon was hoping for this to happen. I don’t think he’s that smart but I wonder if he hoped someone else would step up by putting the pga in this situation.
[QUOTE=”Hacker67, post: 11808986, member: 71565″]I never thought this would get done by the end of the year and see an extension on the horizon. It seems halting the court cases was the immediate concern.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837915, member: 51852″]
Adelaide was a success and I think that is going to be their best going forward.
I have thought the tour needs to shrink the amount events. Get people excited by not having it every week. 2-3(including majors) events a month from January to September and make all the big name players play against each other every event.
[/QUOTE]
More events is good for the PGA pros, but so many events definitely dilutes each of the events more. A lot of the pros want an off-season, but I think it is mainly the top pros because they have no chance of losing their PGA cards.
[QUOTE=”MattyD-MPLS, post: 11837915, member: 51852″]
I have thought the tour needs to shrink the amount events. Get people excited by not having it every week. 2-3(including majors) events a month from January to September and make all the big name players play against each other every event.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t the so-called “elevated” events with limited fields consisting of the top players address that? Aren’t there going to be 20 of them when you count the majors?
Interesting turn of events. Phil definitely voiced his opinion about it. ?
[MEDIA=twitter]1724520620560654662[/MEDIA]
Koepka making fun of his employer. I’m starting to think golf is the most poorly run business on Earth. This sport doubled what it’s paying players and they are all extremely pissed off at the sport and want to play it as little as possible and in the meantime the product has been diluted so much for the fans that it’s not worth enough to finance the checks that management wrote to double the players pay.
[URL unfurl=”true”]https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-brooks-koepka-trolls-league-over-lack-of-2024-schedule[/URL]
Phil will never get the credit he deserves for getting drug through the mud the last few years . Too many egos blindly hated him because they were told to by the Tour wigs and none will have the decency to admit they were wrong even in the slightest bit.
[QUOTE=”michaelgfox, post: 11925383, member: 77124″]
Phil will never get the credit he deserves for getting drug through the mud the last few years . Too many egos blindly hated him because they were told to by the Tour wigs and none will have the decency to admit they were wrong even in the slightest bit.
[/QUOTE]
What credit should Phil get?
[QUOTE=”echico, post: 11925396, member: 6774″]
What credit should Phil get?
[/QUOTE]
– phil said pga tour should mic up players and get more on course content. and loosen up the tours stranglehold on player media content so they can make money on name, likeness, and image. This happened on tour last year
– phil said tour wasnt paying players enough of the pie. This changed last year as well
– phil complained players had no say in how the tour was run. This changed last year
these are just a few things phil was outspoken about against the tour and he was grilled by fans everywhere. You still clearly cant see the ways phil was correct on these things, even if he isn’t the sole person responsible for these changes. Phil was outspoken against multiple tour issues throughout 2020, got berated for it and still does, and in turn the pga tour ends up implementing what he brought to light. If you still cant see how phil may not be the total ass hat the media portraits him to be then im sorry but you need to relearn how to think
[QUOTE=”michaelgfox, post: 11925421, member: 77124″]
– phil said pga tour should mic up players and get more on course content. and loosen up the tours stranglehold on player media content so they can make money on name, likeness, and image. This happened on tour last year
– phil said tour wasnt paying players enough of the pie. This changed last year as well
– phil complained players had no say in how the tour was run. This changed last year
these are just a few things phil was outspoken about against the tour and he was grilled by fans everywhere. You still clearly cant see the ways phil was correct on these things, even if he isn’t the sole person responsible for these changes. Phil was outspoken against multiple tour issues throughout 2020, got berated for it and still does, and in turn the pga tour ends up implementing what he brought to light. If you still cant see how phil may not be the total ass hat the media portraits him to be then im sorry but you need to relearn how to think
[/QUOTE]
So he complained. He didn’t actually do anything to set up LIV or to help other PGA Tour players.
I don’t need to relearn how to think but thanks for such a witty banter.
[QUOTE=”echico, post: 11925465, member: 6774″]
So he complained. He didn’t actually do anything to set up LIV or to help other PGA Tour players.
I don’t need to relearn how to think but thanks for such a witty banter.
[/QUOTE]
He did, but we can’t forget these are things that he had been talking to the Tour about for over a decade. They were declined and told they couldnt take place…Poof, apparently they could have and msot of the players agreed that this is good for the game.
Sadly its divided now. Its political now. Its ruined now. If the tour had any forward thinking, all of this could have been avoided in my opinion.
[QUOTE=”echico, post: 11925465, member: 6774″]
So he complained. He didn’t actually do anything to set up LIV or to help other PGA Tour players.
I don’t need to relearn how to think but thanks for such a witty banter.
[/QUOTE]
Phil was a huge piece in this battle the last decade youre truly doing mental gymnastics if you dont think his words, opinions, and effect in the golf world didnt have an impact on the outcomes in pro golf.
[QUOTE=”michaelgfox, post: 11925520, member: 77124″]
Phil was a huge piece in this battle the last decade youre truly doing mental gymnastics if you dont think his words, opinions, and effect in the golf world didnt have an impact on the outcomes in pro golf.
[/QUOTE]
Take it down a notch. I actually like the LIV format. I am not a Phil hater, not a fan either. Greg Norman actually did work to start up LIV. I don’t like him either but his conversations actually led to something. In my view of things as Phil got older the younger golfers distanced themselves from him while snuggling up next to Tiger. Phil was talking about not getting enough money while he was already one of the highest compensated players. It was about him and not so much the rest of the players. That is how it played out to me. I don’t have access to all of his back room talks with the head brass at the PGA Tour so I won’t go into that as I would just be making stuff up.
Lets try to remember the THP way.
It costs zero dollars to treat others kindly and be a part of this awesome community.
[QUOTE=”michaelgfox, post: 11925592, member: 77124″]
My only point was that phil was outspoken against the tour for specific and warranted reasons, got blasted for it for 3 years, and still yet is still hated by pga fans everywhere. This reply is just a deflection
Personally I just wish fans could admit how wrong they were about phil is all. I hated phil and liv during covid because i believed the tour and their media brigade so now im just trying to give phil the light of day he deserves because he was mostly right about what he said
[/QUOTE]
Let me avoid word salad
Outspoken – Agreed
He had a point – Of course. I think everyone in all walks of life should get as much money as possible for their work. NIL money for PGA tour should be allowed.
Admit that I was wrong – I never thought Phil was the devil so I don’t need to admit or apologize for anything. He did however make things hard on himself with his own blunders in the media.